Yay for buildings that are dynamic!
http://www.yahoo.com/s/906057
I think we need one of these in Org
Nice concept but there is going to be Lots of engineers scratching thier heads over how to heat cool and the theres the matter of plumbing. Something them archetects never think of.
Firt time a river of waste lands in the street that building is no longer going to change shape.
well it's all prefabricated and centrally connected, so if you can develop a system of central plumbing and electrical then you're set. No idea how that happens but they do :)
I know how its done. But its real pricey and the current system has a few problems, so that we normally have to put exhaust fans in the central core area to keep it from getting back into the living quaters. Most engineers prefer to have all the plumbing in the center core. To alivate this problem, but in the concept shown its going to be a mother bear.
The heat cool will prolly be done with indivual untis per condo. That just leaves the waste and making sure your bathroom stay with your condo.
Oops sorry miss thought this was my bathroom. ;D
even with a centralized system its still practical impossible, minus the possibility of setting up a ring chamber inside the centralized structure at diffrent levels per floor for air, fuel and plumbing/refuse, but this ould only work if the rooms rotated, moving vertically kinda kills this plan. But then inside this exterior ring of the interior structure, everything drains to the core.
now this idea would make it very difficult to remain air tight or avoid leaks but the rings would be in 2 parts, the fix base to each right, and the top would be the piece that would slide with the building over top of each seperate ring with the connections into the apt.s.
i have diagrams but no scanner so use your own imagination....
UUW UWW, another idea is for each unit to have its own mini system and instead of being completely random possitioning, the building is really set up on a grid with connections at each grid intersection where each unit would lock in. then the units systems connect and exchange used for fresh air/ water/what ever
lol what happens with everyone wants to be on one side of the building and that shit tips over.... lololol. lets all watch the fire works... crack BOOOOM
Wow, I loved the idea of the building and the look 'til you guys started. Thanks for ruining my vision.... =D
yea I was thinking that too almost like if you have a central area holding up campers where you have self contained units that simply need periodic "dumping" and replenishing energy use.
And they can forget about meeting LEED requirements, and getting a break on the energy costs. This thing is going to leak air like a sive. and the amout of storage it would need I would hate to be the steel designer. remimber water weighs 8.7 pounds per gallon. Thats alot of weight moving around. even if they just stored and dumped dailey. Most folks just about 60 gallons a day approx. Some more some less. thats a lot of grey water sloshing around.
Quote from: papalovebear on June 25, 2008, 11:04:56 AM
yea I was thinking that too almost like if you have a central area holding up campers where you have self contained units that simply need periodic "dumping" and replenishing energy use.
This is pretty much what I thought when the problem was first mentioned. Campers/trailers do this all the time. I don't see why it couldn't be adapted to this situation. Basically it just needs to be designed so that every individual unit could seal off the plumbing and retract power connectors for the move, then lock in once the move is complete. I'm not saying it's simple, but it's not impossible.
well my first crappy idea would get rid of the periodic dumping of waste/water and air with the connection that moves with the apt. weather thats realistic or not i dono. its the energy that im not sure about. but i mean that whole wind enerty thing... with generators place though out the cylidrical center... might make it easier. i dono
well the real problem I see if the vertical deflection with the building period and wind loads. A building that tall has a ton of movment and the building type and shape would be as rigid as possible, however you are also having roating elements which weight differently so it is dynamic load to the extreme. The structure alone would in my mind make this impractical and if you're on the top of the building in one of hte pods you are moving a ton laterally and rotating; it's like living in a gyrosphere.
Newton lawas of motion and this building are going to have fun. and the rotating mass means you are going to have to design a load of so much per square foot in the penthouse and then force those residants not to overload their condos (yea right) This thing looks pretty on paper and in a computer generated world but pratically now thats another story.
Everyjoint and every beam is going to have to be soporated for both a dynmaic, staic and bending momemt. That is almost impossible to do and espically when you consider that it all rotates around the center so the bending moment is in all three directions, Conreate cannot take tensile stress, Steel does good in Tensile but horrid in bending and composite materials dont bend they fracture. so the internall structure of this thing is going to be what?
just a thought.
Sooo, umm, after you get home from work, how will you know which floor to take the elevator to? :)
Possibly the floor will come to you :)
yah from the look of it, your apt will come pick u up at the bottom and then you will go find an open space to chill for the night.
with som tweaks to the building design, a counter weight system of some sort could be constructed such as ball baring type weights to counter the dynamic aspects of the building as well as the wind forces on the building, at first thats what i thought the (wind power papellers ) were going to be.
the fact that they are trying to turn apts into the wankavator is kinda scary to me.
also i dont think the 3k per square foot will cover the maintainence and upkeep of one of these places if the building survives more than 5 years. a track system to supposed the movement of a horizontal load of that size i dont see lastin all that long, but then i never really agreed with physics
I believe you mean Wonkavator. Wankavator would be something completely different. And possibly sticky.
Hmm, skimming through the thread as I've been gone for about a week now... seeing as I'm a civil engineer focused on roads and hydro my opinion might be kinda moot on this, but heres the issues I see that I'll throw out there.
Friction - Lube isn't just handy for sex, but when you have moving parts you have to keep them oiled/greased, or extremely well buffed at all times. The amount of moving parts on this building would be extraordinary, and you would have to also institute breaks on them as well. Accounting for momentum in high wind speeds would be a must, think of sitting on a chair, if you hold your arms out you move slower, but if u pull them in you spin faster, same concept, bigger scale. What happens when everyone moves in to the center in the mornings to go downstairs?
Vibration - Moving parts always create vibrations, these can cause havoc on structural members, and could cause some deterioration. Again while I'm not a structures person if I remember back to my college days concrete is one of the weaker materials to deal with vibrations due to microfractures... could be wrong here though. Either way you have to dampen the vibrations, which could double as brakes.
Natural Disasters - Always a concern, but have fun figuring them out on a building that has internal moment forces everywhere. Think about escape methods if you have a fire. You don't want to send people down the elevator, but at the same if the fire is in the center of the building where the stairs are, what do you do if your above that floor? A fire escape on the outside isn't feasible for a skyscraper past what? 7th floor maybe (not a structures person, back off)
Load Distribution - You have to balance it at all times, it's like a train load. Trains tip over easily if improperly loaded, similar situation here. You have to weigh each unit as it moves and have a computer calculating it at all times, not to mention a couple backups for that computer, and a couple back up power supplies for the entire building... a fast shutdown due to power outages or line breaks could bring the whole structure down.
In the end: Neat concept, don't recommend paying for it though :) Bad part is they probably plugged the community and got them to vote to pass it and are probably getting tax kick-backs for a silly project that will cost probably 3 or 4 times what a normal high rise condo complex would cost, and probably won't bring in 3 or 4 times the annual tax revenue as a regular condo would. Guess I'm just not an advocate of pushing the envelope, don't fix it if it ain't broke :)
*IF* this thing ever got built and worked (somewhat) as planned, I can see in the first year, at least one resident, bribing the person in control of this building on not having their condo face the sun in the A.M.........cause they're not 'a morning person'. :D
Also, you could tell who was on drugs cause they'd have they're faces plastered to the window thinking centrifugal
force was holding them there. ;D
well it will probably be built. And like most of the buildings there it will be paid for by incredibly rich people and will be fulled on the first day they take apps. It's ridiculas but that's waht happens when you have too much money to know what to do with
one of the apts is gonna fall off completely kills 17 and wounding 9 more. then its going to get closed for reconsultation. and then shut down perminately. if it does get built i have a feelin that there will be a lot of changes made,.
No it's not that radical I don't think. I think it will open and have many problems but like a building they will eventually be fixed.
Tell you what we will let the archatects design it and build it then us engineers can sit a safe distance away with the popcorn and laugh as it tombules to the ground. I doubt servely they will fix all the phyics with this thing to make it work or it will be so cost prohibative as to not be feasable to build.
And yes aster Concrete and composites bothe hate Vibrations. And Steel gets nice harmoics going. the building could actually sing you to sleep.
haha whatever, we'll stamp the architectural drawings and make it look pretty. Now how it works and stands up, hell we don't give a shit engineers stamp that. If anything the architects will be sitting back enjoying popcorn and when shit happens we will gladly meet up with you for lunch between the engineer's court trials.
Thats what's nice about not having a background in all that building stuff. I can look at the building and be fascinated by it and not get into the why, what and how's of the whole thing.
I can honestly say, however, I would not live in the damn thing because that many moving parts is gonna break and what are the consequences to that.
If we have all this architectural and engineering expertise in the guild, you guys should get together and create your own "new-age" building.
Yea that would be a great idea we could call it RTC the Archatects and Engineers to the world. Let see Papa can be the head art guy I can do the HVAC and Plumbing, set Aster up as the civil end. and all we need to hire is and electrical and a Structrual and we are up and running.
Of of course i have to pass my PE first.
Aster has to be edligable to take and pass her PE
And Papa has to pass the 2 day Artch test which I do not think hes eligable for yet.
But other then those little trival matters its in the bag.
It's 7 tests that the average person takes a couple month break between them so generally it's spaced over a year.
and when can you start to take the first one?
Technicalities... You build it, they will come :)
Frankly I think these people should be spending all of that money on one of the many problems facing the world today rather than pissing it away on a fancy new skyscraper...
Well you log your hours that you work, you need 700 credit units and 1 hour = 1 credit.
You need to log:
Programming - 10 hours
Site and Environmental Analysis - 10
Schematic Design - 15
Engineering Systems Coordination - 15
Building Cost Analysis - 10
Code Research - 15
Design Develpoment - 40
Construction Documents - 135
Specifications and Meterials Research - 15
Document Checking and Coordination - 10
Bidding and Contract Negotiation - 10
Construction Phase - Office - 15
Construction Phase - Observation - 15
Project Managment - 15
Office Managment - 10
Professional and Community Service - 10
Totaling 700 units
The problem is that you don't just work on that stuff you log waaay more hours into phases so it's not like you can sit for the test after 700 hours. Like I have 356 hours total but I have 40 hours too many in programming 53 too many in schematic design, 55 too many in design develpoment and I still havent logged about 100 hours in that so yea it's really complicated and weird. It's not that you log a certian amount of hours then you're good you need them in specific areas that in the real work can't be done sequencially.
Engineers have it easier put in 4 years of documental experiance under a lincesed PE get your refferances and and your ready to take the test of course you need 5 people to vouch for you and 3 have to be PE's. So in smaller companies where you only know 1 or 2 PE's life can get hard.
yea we have to get a couple people to sign off on every time we submit our hours which we need to do regularly or else they go away and don't count.
But with PE like you're saying you need to send in your hours with people signing off on them as well and then after you've done the time you study or have been studying to take the big test.
I am not sure which is harder I don't think they can be compaired well because ours are very different from yours and I guess that's the nature of engineering and architecture they are like oil and water sometimes but sometimes they blend well.